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Overall my biggest issue that I have with Marxism and you do this kind of came up when I was trying to explain this when we were talking about the theory in class. He reacts like this is a socially obscure view that we're just learning about now. But like legitimately the media Academia and Hollywood has been pushing like very similar views to watch as now was talking about for like a long time. But I really do think it's like some obscure ideology or The way of you in the world. This probably has to do with Marxism as an ideology of the workers. But it really is transformed into an upper class ideology. Which I think is really comical. But the people that you're really going to see supporting Marxism are college students and professors and people that are educated. Not the factory workers or the Farmers of the United States. Most of them voted for Trump in the 2016 election. Whether or not you believe that's because there. Trailer or not clearly class Consciousness is kind of not real. I guess the biggest issue is that I have an underground victimized ideology. When they're just in the main discourse. And there's a majority of people in power that believe a lot of the things that chiz was talking about. Wrong with Marxism being in the popular ideology. I mean just don't go around acting like yours underground victim when you have so many people in power that believe what you're saying. So I guess it's just funny to me that turns me off from our cousin a lot. Also it's a super individualist ideology for something that claims to be a collectivist one. A lot of pictures that was talking about was just people trying to weather correct or incorrect what's the weather on personal interests and identities in the society. Instead of actually they're being a common goal or something to actually be achieved it's just because capitalism is keeping my own individual identity down so therefore capitalism is bad. Another thing that I don't like is I feel like it's a blame Pusher while certainly and there's a lot of things that can be blamed on liberal capitalism and clearly it's not the best system. It takes away the personal responsibility for your own actions your own failings. it takes away the responsibility of the own person and put it on capitalism or some abstract idea which is doing wrong. So you'll never actually become a better person or achieve great things because you're not trying to fix yourself you're trying to fix an abstract idea.
Another big issue that I think we don't talk about it do we automatically assume every single anti-consumer Society has to be socialistic in nature. And I think that's not true I think consumers and has two more do with meaning in one's life then to do any real economic status. I see consumerism is more of a philosophical and state of being. More than just the act of buying goods. The worst thing consumers in as bad as that leaves mad Hollow and is a symptom of there being no purpose in the society. It was not bad because you are buying things and I think if that's what your idea is that's wrong. Well buying cheap Goods is bad that's not the reason that consumers has bad. Consumers is bad because it shows the hollowness of our society that we have no meaning or purpose of it. We're going to live or die for. So all we do is get excited for the next product that comes out And I said before we had this idea that all anti-consumerist resumes have to be a left-wing socialist government and that's not true many religions will offer a anti-consumerist message. Most philosophes do to I think we're just stuck in this cold war mines and it has to be liberal democracy and capitalism. against socialism and communism. And that's a very limited way of looking at the world even though the Cold War was more complex than that but like just because different ideologies and ways of life aren't the most prevalent in society doesn't mean that they're automatically bad. People need something to die for that is the reality of Life humans need somebody to die for what's the weather in God country or King I can bring meaning to their lives they do work for one of those things. So the issue is not buying goods but people are buying goods to fill that emptiness that they feel inside.
Like I was talking about a lot before socialism at least is a word that most people have no idea what it actually means. This includes people on both the left and the right they're lucky they will call the Nordic Nations socialist. When they're not there just market economies with a welfare state. so I guess we just have this idea that certain different things just are socialism because the government is working which is not true at all. But I do get your point that that cannot be changed in this country because our system doesn't allow it. Whether it's a change that would be more beneficial to a right-wing world you are left-wing worldview. The current gridlock in our country exists in with both political parties in this liberal democracy essentially being money laundering systems. What's a lot of times will agree on certain things would have benefits both parties. also we had this idea that elected officials have so much power when they really don't. Cabinet positions are appointed positions have way more power than any elected official ever will have which is a common misconception the American people have is that this idea that we know who's in power and that the people who I can actually change things. But because of are the bureaucracy and red tape work that's impossible. So that are radical change in the way that America is governed nothing will ever happen except for a constant cycle of the system perpetuating itself.
The media is a large issue in this country I totally agree with you. Americans episode the other presses unbiased truth-seeking institution when it's really just a money-making Institution. That serves corporate interests. Journalism is just another way of pushing a corporation's view on to the American people. I mean as a reason that Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post and no one talks about it. And think about how there's only five major American News companies. And most of them believe the same thing. Even something that people would consider more radical like Fox News still with Totaline in making a worldview that's similar to the all the other news stations. It just means idea that journalism is no matter what a selfless endeavor which I find just unappealing. I think journalists are one of the most overrated professions in the entire world and as long as it's not an important one but it's not as sacred as everyone thinks it is.
@salmon That's a very valid point that is important to understand. People constantly envision some radical idea that somehow works in current societal constructs. But the truth of the matter is that that idea couldn't possibly take place with current structures.
@xmysterio agreed. The values of "freedom" are too ingrained into our country. Therefore many are fundamentally opposed to socialism, which is believed to be by many a direct interference with people's freedoms. I also think there is a large misunderstanding of what socialism is in America.
I agree with you that consumerism transcends any societal structure in simplicity. It for sure goes much deeper and is a part of the human psyche. In today's society, people are indeed finding themselves without as much meaning to their life (all determined by themselves) as they would like to have. Due to the technological era that we live in, people too often search their devices and social media for validation and meaning, but are never fully satisfied and feel the need to purchase goods to help themselves feel more complete. The instant gratification culture that is nourished by social media creates a materialistically dependent society.
A critical aspect of Communism is that there are multiple steps that change the structure and culture of society over a long period of time until the society is ready to accept the true form of Communism. The issue is that every communist state has failed to get past the dictatorship phase of Communist implimentation. In my opinion, this lies within the human desire for power, once those that are in power in an authoritative state such as the USSR, there is no incentive for them to shift towards an actual Communal system, they would rather maintain the current structure so that they stay in power.
Although I have been jumping around different positions in this thread that are in approval of marxism/socialism for the sake of conversation, I will push back on this one. The ideas of freedom, although generally originate on an internationally recognized scale in the United States, freedom as a concept is one that has spread around the world and is one that has done much good for a lot of people since the American Revolution. The Haitian and French Revolutions are based on our domestically founded concepts of liberty. Without a major example of standing up to an authoritative entity, colonialism as a practice would extend much further than it did. Although the United States is due much correct criticism in regards to its history, the concept of freedom has created a global standard and has great significance.
@aaparrot Even so, isn't that the exact point of neo-marxism? To pick apart, and to understand how things are layered beneath? I think this thread confuses the ideology with the political theory far too much, as anyone adherent to the philosophy must understand the difficulty in replacing a system fundamental to our culture.
@conster, I feel like I was unclear in my post. I was trying to say that we have gained a skewed view of what socialism is in the U.S, which contradicts our values of freedom. There really isn't a tyrannical force to overthrow in modern America like during the Revolution, so freedom often comes in protesting against government oversteps, specifically taxes. This fundamentally goes against many people's perception of socialism, which is socialism=more taxes. I think Bernie Sanders is a good example of this. He is described as a socialist and is seen as one of America's more radical politicians. In reality, he's a democratic socialist. He supports socialized programs and higher taxes on the rich but never talks about nationalizing industries. If this is defined as socialism, then there will be no way that actual socialism will take any form in the U.S.
@stella People take freedom to extreme levels. Take the mask debacle right now, people think masks are an infringement on their rights and their freedoms. People will go to far lengths to maintain their freedom, and beneficial ways come out of it too. That’s why this response to socialism wouldn’t be too much of a surprise.
@jacksonvon Oh wow. I think that may be the most interesting explanation of socialism that I’ve heard. You definitely opened up my eyes a bit more to the issue. Thank you!
@delphine You did say that. Didn’t you? Hm, you’re right then. Socialism isn’t realistic in our society after all. We are far too divided in our thinking for such to be possible. Carry on then!
@xmysterio yeah i think it's hard to define socialism in the modern age because the word is thrown around so much which makes it super difficult to go and explain it because everyone has their owned political bias so it is hard also because socialism is such a broad category that many different political thought can be see alot of things
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