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Neo-Marxism

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Conster
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@mangoman

I feel that I agree with you that there has to be a drive in humanity in order for us to continue as a civilization. There needs to be a reason. Many different people find their drive through many different things as we are all different individuals with our unique (at least we'd like to think we are unique) combination of experiences and personalities. I disagree with you in that I believe there is more than just greed that people draw from. Greed should not necessarily be used to generalize everyone's drives as different people have these different drives. Of course, there are plenty who go off of greed and self-centered drives, but there are plenty still, who want to help others and define their success by what they are able to create for others. I think certain versions of greed can be helpful, but overall there are many instances in which it is harmful to those that are greedy, but primarily harmful to others. 


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Conster
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@savhoisington

I think that what you specifically reference makes sense. Early humans lived in small, tight-knit, hunter-gatherer communities. There was no real need to be higher than one another on the social ladder. I do believe, however, that the cementing of greedy actions and livelihoods did arise very early on in human history. We see with the formation of civilization bring about governmental and societal structures on a larger scale. Included in these are positions of power, and once concepts of money/value were firmly in place, classes formed immediately. Once the positions of power and wealth existed, many people wanted those positions. Who wouldn't want to be rich and powerful? I think the question starts to be transformed into one of whether the societal structures humanity has built throughout its lifetime are considered to be natural. If the existence of societal structure is natural for humans, then the monetary and materialistic greed that we reference today most likely is natural aswell, as greed goes hand in hand with the existence of these societal structures.


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Jackson Von Habsburg
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I found you a very limiting narrative that only Marxism is the only thing which can bring us from the grips of consumerism.I mean there's nothing that Neo Marxism brings to the table that isn't brought by any other political thought when viewing a novel. But I can view my novel  through a right-wing perspective and it doesn't change the way of viewing the novel. Innocent and we're still doing it through a political mindset and even through a predetermined set of values.  hard to believe that the answer to consumerism is to further itemize yourself and only being yourself as a worker unit which essentially is what you are under a  Marxist Society. Now don't get me wrong I do not think the US system is great at all it's quite terrible. And the capital system that we live under has little life there, which is a lot worse for people. And overalls are a side we've decorated spiritually, artistically, Ecstatically under this system. Because we have nothing to believe in and nothing to die for. Even that being said class Consciousness  I mean this is the same thing all political ideologies which is to divide and figure out who your enemies are two better changes of society. So I mean it's not like it's an all inclusive ideology, in a society under that kind of system it will just  get rid of thoughts which it teams outside the limits of society. So I don't really understand how this is different from  the society we live in right now in the deconstruction sense. Because  Marxism creates the same boundaries which our Western Society has but they'll just be in different ways. Overall kind of just stupid I'm not a Marxist so obviously I don't agree with it. I just think it's thanks again to monopolize the idea that consumers are as bad as most political thought is. except for liberalism which we live under right now whether it's the Republicans or the Democrats essentially believe in a liberal democracy so we are constructed and bound by liberal democracy.  I just don't see what the point of Neo Marxism is it's about an ideology for me so reading a book through an ideology that I don't agree with just doesn't do it for me you know it doesn't bring anything to table that I need to consider cuz I've already consider these things in picking my ideology that I believe in.


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@delphine A very elaborate trap may I add ,and a very low maintenance trap because by teaching these Good consumerist fundamentals to one generation and making them believe it they do the job for you the next time a new generation rolls around. And it keeps repeating and repeating. Social standards are created that seem so superfluous by pushing the newest or the best items in front of our face and calling us the odd ones out if we don't buy into it. So not only is the seller pressuring you to buy it but also your close friends that are so dear to you.


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xmysterio
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@delphine Socialism itself is something our nation won’t be able to accomplish. At least not in our current state. We would never be able to agree on one political stance, so this concept of conforming to socialism is completely unrealistic for us.


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Persephone
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Posted by: @savhoisington

It is a trap to the point where you either comply or suffer

This struck a cord in me. It's completely accurate and puts our current situation almost in a dystopian view, which to me is quite terrifying. This just makes me wonder, is there even a realistic way out of a consumerist society even with something like a civil war? Because at that point haven't we already chosen to suffer? Arghh... curse the government!


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Conster
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@xmysterio

Although I am opposed to socialism in America, I will play the devil's advocate. I agree that conforming to a socialist system in America would be nearly impossible. You would have far too many people to opposed to the idea of socialism itself and would be completely unwilling to allow the socialist system to come to fruition. This is why you would have to take a different approach to installing a socialist system. There would have to be some kind of implementation over time that would allow people to get used to the idea of socialism. The implementations would have to be minute in order to have the changes be "acceptable" to that majority of Americans. Once some of the base principles are in place, people would become accustomed to it and accept it as a possible governmental system. 


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MangoMan
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@theboulder The problem with this has to do with the media.  News that catches the publics eye is always bad news, it's news that makes you want to watch to see what is going to happen.  Unfortunately this is the harsh reality, that is why humans are so often shown as cruel greedy creatures.


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SnowyYeti
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@theboulder this is an interesting point and a good article to support it as well.  before reading your post I would have said that humans are inherently selfish.  After your post I think that it is not that humans are selfish or generous.  I think that both of those qualities are in us and based on how we are brought up, it will determine which of those qualities will stand out the most.  I think this makes sense.  Anyone else agree?


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Conster
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@persephone

Although you can realistically change the governmental system of nations in order to alter the flavor of consumerist society, there is no way at this point to completely change away from consumerism. There are a few historical examples of large scale anti-consumerist movements, but all of these have either failed to complete the change, or altered the ways in which change needs to occur in order to create an anti-consumerist society. These are of course examples of Communist systems being implemented. The primary example is the Soviet Union. The step of Communism that the Soviet Union never got past was the dictatorship. A dictatorship/hyper authoritarian government is required in Communism to eliminate society's consumerist ideals. The problem with this is that people are and will always be power-hungry. Once someone has control over an entire nation, there is no incentive for them to leave that position of power. It is impossible to change out of being a consumerist society because those in power, whether they are corporate powers, governmental powers, or a normal person put into power, want to stay in power.


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SnowyYeti
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@conster I agree with you on this point.  Even if a socialist system were to be implemented in the U.S. it would take a ridiculous amount of time and effort and tons of small steps.  Something I think that would also be a barrier though is that once citizens realize that the US is moving towards socialism, we would start to have major problems.  My question is, why do so many of the American people hate socialism and is their hatred for it well founded? are their reasons reasonable?


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Delphine
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@savhoisington Exactly! You're stuck being forced to choose two seemingly awful fates! You must either adhere to all societal standards or break free and live a life that's labelled "meaningless". It's really an easy decision, but one that most people aren't totally content making. This is why we're stuck in a society with many people remaining so miserable.


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Delphine
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@snowyyeti I wonder this too! I think a great deal of it is with misinformation that socialism is the same as communism. Most opposers of socialism refer to it as communist society. It seems as if they live in fear of this type of society seeing other countries go through horrific communist reigns. It's important to separate the two concepts.


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Delphine
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@xmysterio Exactly. Hence why I said "socialism is never realistic for our society."


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Conster
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@snowyyeti

Americans strongly dislike Socialism due to the history behind the states that have attempted to use it in the past. Although there are successful socialist states today, they are small and overlooked, especially when considering the population and economic scale of the US in comparison. People associate Socialism with the USSR, North Korea, etc. These all have negative connotations given by our society, so therefore with an association of Socialism with some major rival like North Korea or the USSR instantly provokes a sense of hate or some form of negative feeling.


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